Is Programming a Lucrative Profession?

Ethics of promoting computing career

By Cameron Laird  72 comments

I want to do something other than rant; I'm going to need help, though.

This week, I came across a pamphlet distributed by the local high school, one with a particularly strong record in academics. I read there:

Computer Science BS graduates can expect an annual salary from $54,000-$74,000. Starting salaries for MS and PhD graduates can be to up to $100,000.

and ...

Employment of computer scientists is expected to grow by 24 percent from 2010 to 2018 ...

The US Federal Bureau of Labor Statistics was provided as a reference.

This is so wrong, I don't know where to start. There are a lot of ways to look at the figures, but only the most skewed ones come up with starting salaries approaching $60,000 annually, and I see plenty of programmers in the US working for less. I don't blame the staff at the high school; from all I know, they're unusually motivated and well-meaning, and I have no doubt they're passing on the best information available to them (although I repeat that Java and C++, the languages their high school curriculum emphasizes, constitute prima facie evidence for me of child abuse).

Is programming lucrative, in the way career counselors advise? No. No way. Let's put aside for a moment the too-easily-manipulated summary statistics, and look at other recent news items.

Free -- from benefits, training, stability ...

Jason Perlow wrote about the decline of the independent consultant just this week. While there are plenty of reasons to discount the demise of the ICCA as he describes it -- briefly, its passage tells us there's been change, not necessarily that things are worse for the individuals involved -- the broad trends I see are as Perlow describes them. "Professionalization" of programmers nowadays strikes chords more like those familiar to auto mechanics or nurses than the "knowledge workers" we once thought we were: we're expected to pay for our own tools, we're increasingly bound by legal entanglements, H1B accumulates degrading tales, and hyperspecialization dominates hiring decisions. Employers have given up on investing in long-term relationships.

A column from earlier this month on writing largely applies to programming, especially in its comments about professional standing (evaporating) and rates (a half to a quarter, at best, of what they were 15 years ago).

I'll continue to program, of course. What's my moral responsibility to local teenagers, though? How hard should I fight what I see as employer propaganda distributed by the public school? How much gain would there be from promoting alternative approaches like this one from David Gewirtz, the technologist who, among many other things, exposed the MILLIONS of e-mail messages that went missing from the White House during 2001-2009?

72 comments

Anonymous 1 year ago
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Anonymous 2 years ago
@aboveAwesome comment! So true! Applies equaly to every one.
jafir002
jafir002 2 years ago
I have no interest in writing open source, so why would I code something up and offer it to the world for free? I want to be paid for my work. If other people like working for free, fine. Some of us have families to feed.Simi Valley Real Estate
Anonymous 2 years ago
The starting salaries really depend on the the firm.Get into companies like Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Cisco, VMWare (big tech names) etc fresh outa school and expect starting salaries ~80,000 for a BS Comp Sci. Fail to strike it big and join a po-dunk sowftware firm, and yes the salary will be much lower of course!!!I have a BS in Comp Sci from NCSU and started at $78K. -Adrian.
Anonymous 2 years ago in reply to Anonymous
That's easy to say -- but those firms receive 100, 500, sometimes 1000 resumes for every entry-level position they hire. CS grads should have a good idea of statistics -- if a new CS grad sends their resume to 10 big-name tech firms (ie: Apple, IBM, Cisco, Google, VMware, Oracle, Microsoft, Amazon, etc.), and each firm receives 1000 resumes for each position, what is the probability that one will get hired?Almost zero, eh?Fact is, unless you had an internship or a solid inside connection with one of the above companies, you're not getting a job there, no matter how hard you try, or what your GPA is.
Anonymous 2 years ago
You're wrong or at least referring to the lower end; perhaps certain things do not pay well and with lack of experience it can be hard to get a job but for people with 10 years of experience or just 2 years on SharePoint $150,000 jobs go begging for both Americans and foreign nationals. Certain specialties for programming can even pay up to $500,000 a year. Of course Seattle and Silicon Valley are too busy with low paying jobs to notice this. BTW, I live in Beverly Hills and have only a High School Degree, no certifications, and I receive calls and emails from recruiters daily even though I'm fully employed and not looking.
Anonymous 2 years ago
I also believe those starting wage statistics. I was hired right out of college last year (BSCS) starting at $60k/year. 8 Months later I got a raise and now I'm making $70k/year.
Anonymous 2 years ago
I've been making at a minimum $100,000 per year since circa 1999 or 2000. I cannot seem to get higher than $150,000 though.
alimaamoser
alimaamoser 2 years ago
"A pamphlet distributed by blogger Cameron Laird's local high school proclaimed that 'Computer Science BS graduates can expect an annual salary from $54,000-$74,000. Starting salaries for MS and PhD graduates can be to up to $100,000' and 'employment of computer scientists is expected to grow by 24 percent from 2010 to 2018.' The pamphlet lists The US Federal Bureau of Labor Statistics as a reference, so how wrong can it be? 'This is so wrong, I don't know where to start,' says Laird. 'There are a lot of ways to look at the figures, but only the most skewed ones come up with starting salaries approaching $60,000 annually, and I see plenty of programmers in the US working for less,' says Laird.Force Factorhttp://www.goarticles.com/cgi-bin/showa.cgi?C=2236872
Anonymous 2 years ago in reply to alimaamoser
The problem with such stats is that you have a disproportionate number of CS grads working in NYC (financial industry), or in the SFBay area or Seattle (tech industry). In those areas, the cost of living makes a $60k or even a $70k 'starting salary' look like peanuts. Also, since that's an average starting salary, if NYC/SFBay/Seattle tech salaries are higher...it means that salaries everywhere else, by definition, must be *much* lower. Any occupation that has a skew towards certain high-cost cities, will have an average starting salary that is much higher than normal. Don't confuse this with CS starting salaries being high, which they most certainly are not.
Anonymous 2 years ago
Computer Science != Programming
Anonymous 2 years ago
I'm sick of the whining.If you really believe it is the H1Bs and not corporate greed that is the reason for you not finding a job, then let me tell you the truth, it's your naive ignorance about business why nobody should hire you.The clothes industry, electronics and car manufactures, they all already went to China. One of the only industries where we still have a foot in the door in the US is IT, but that only as long as we can stay competitive.So if there is a job here that a "cheap" H1B is filling instead of your butt, then be happy because there are jobs in the US that need to provide the ecosystem for the work to be done here. If that H1B would not have that job, then the work would be done in India or China, and all the jobs around that knowledge worker would be there too.At least this way taxes are being paid to the US.Of course it's "everybody for themselfs" when it is about healthcare, but when it is about jobs you run to Mommy Goverment and cry about the dark skinned child who's playing on your favorite seesaw. It's the bad unions when it is about the car industry, but you want union style protection and a bailout for your carreer.It's the great free markets you should be complaining about that allow greedy corporate leaders to suckerpunch workers like that, but after being brainwashed by FoxNews the Republicans you stopped using your brain, now you're their newest sheep singing their favorite song.
Anonymous 2 years ago in reply to Anonymous
So Americans should take it where the sun don't shine, even though it was Americans who invented the computer, Americans who built the IT industry, and Americans who presided over the greatest growth in the industry in the history of the world?Is it any coincidence that when H1-B started, the economy almost immediately crashed, and never really did recover? Wouldn't we all be better off if the H1-B's were all deported back to India where they could develop internal markets and internal demand for US produced goods and services?
Anonymous 2 years ago
MS in Computer Science with an emphasis on Graphics and systems programming. Starting salary in Silicon Valley: 90k. After a year working, raise to 105k (yes this was during the recession). Studied Basic, visual basic, c in high school, then all c and java in college. Self-taught graphics programming and dabbled in research. Been programming since the sixth grade.You have to separate computer scientists with programmers. The former are what the article is talking about, the latter is what you're complaining about. The difference in 90k versus 40k is someone who can program in all languages efficiently depending on what the task demands, utilizing appropriate data structures and paradigms to solve the required problem. Good employers know this, and the ones that don't are bankrupt companies that I won't be working for anyways.There are different leagues of programmers, so the answer is it depends. Don't expect to go into the industry and make 100k without severely working your ass off. If you're not cut out for it, be happy with your 40k because that's better than alot of professions out there.
Anonymous 2 years ago
http://data.bls.gov:8080/oep/servlet/oep.noeted.servlet.ActionServletComputer software engineers, applications2008: 514.8K employed2018 projected: 689.9K employedexpected increase: 175.1KComputer systems analysts2008: 532.2K2018 projected: 640.3Kexpected increase: 108.1Computer programmers2008: 426.7K2018 projected: 414.4expected decrease: 12.3Kgrand total increase: 270.9K over 10 years, 27K per yearNow, when I go over to NCES (digest of education statistics), I see that we're graduating over 60K US citizens in CS each year, but these guys expect only a small fraction of them to find employment. To fully employ every one of them would require an increase of over 600K.I also have to wonder how they factor in all those hundreds of thousands of former programmers and software engineers and analysts who have annual wages of $0.0 when they construct their "median", and how they factor in all of the former analysts, programmers and software engineers who are cat sitting, raking leaves, etc. Well, the fact is that they do not, because they count those as fully-employed cat sitters, blue jean salesmen, coffee servers and leaf rakers.
Anonymous 2 years ago
I started professionally programming when I was a sophomore, mostly for state agencies. It didn't pay much more than my expenses, and I tended to lose track of time and work right through classes.Within a couple years, all I had to do was call my head-hunter and I would have half a dozen interviews lined up in no time, scattered all around the country.Now, if you're not already on the same side of the city, and certainly if you can't fly yourself to the interview and then relocate yourself to firms over 150 miles away, they won't even talk with you. All due to the glut. And one big part of the glut is the F, J, E-3, H, and L visa programs.

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