Mozilla slams Google's Chrome Frame as 'browser soup'

By Gregg Keizer, Computerworld |  Internet, Google, google chrome 18 comments

Mozilla executives today took shots at Google for pitching its Chrome Frame plug-in as a solution to Internet Explorer's poor performance, with one arguing that Google's move will result in "browser soup."

The Mozilla reaction puts the company that builds Firefox on the same side of the debate as rival Microsoft, which has also blasted Google over the plug-in.

Released last week , Chrome Frame lets Internet Explorer 6 (IE6), IE7 and IE8 utilize the Chrome browser's WebKit rendering engine, as well as its high-performance V8 JavaScript engine. Google pitched the plug-in as a way to instantly improve the performance of the notoriously slow IE , and as a way for Web developers to support standards IE can't handle, including HTML 5.

Specifically, said Google, it was pushing Chrome Frame because it decided it wasn't worth trying to make its new collaboration and communications tool, Google Wave, work with IE. Google developers spent "countless hours" on tweaking Wave for IE, but gave up.

"We could continue in this fashion, but using Google Chrome Frame instead lets us invest all that engineering time in more features for all our users, without leaving Internet Explorer users behind," argued Lars Rasmussen and Adam Schuck of Google's Wave team last week.

Mitchell Baker, the former CEO of Mozilla and currently the chairman of the Mozilla Foundation, disagreed with Google's tactic to slip Chrome inside IE. Strongly.

"The overall effects of Chrome Frame are undesirable," she said in an entry to her personal blog late Monday. "I predict positive results will not be enduring and -- and to the extent it is adopted -- Chrome Frame will end in growing fragmentation and loss of control for most of us, including Web developers."

According to Baker, Chrome Frame's browser-in-a-browser will confuse users and render some of their familiar tools useless. "Once your browser has fragmented into multiple rendering engines, it's very hard to manage information across Web sites. Some information will be manageable from the browser you use and some information from Chrome Frame. This defeats one of the most important ways in which a browser can help people manage their [Web] experience."

But Chrome Frame's biggest problem, said Baker, is that it cedes control to the site, not the person surfing. And that will just confuse users.

"For many people, Chrome Frame will make the Web even more unknowable and confusing," Baker said. "Image you download Chrome Frame. You go to a Web site. What rendering engine do you end up using? That depends on the Web site now, not on you."

Microsoft took a different tack when it slammed Google for releasing Chrome Frame. The plug-in, claimed Microsoft, not only doubles the risk of attack -- users have to worry about vulnerabilities in both IE and Chrome -- but also breaks several features in its browser, including the private browsing mode.

Mike Shaver, Mozilla's vice president of engineering, weighed in yesterday alongside Baker, but also gave Google some advice.

"The user's understanding of the Web's security model and the behavior of their browser is seriously hindered by delegating the choice of software to the developers of individual sites they visit," Shaver said. "It is a problem that we have seen repeatedly with other stack plug-ins like Flash, Silverlight and Java, and not one that I think we need to see replayed again under the banner of HTML 5.

"It would be better for the Web if developers who want to use the Chrome Frame snippet simply told users that their site worked better in Chrome, and instructed them on how to install it," Shaver added.

He also panned Chrome Frame for some of the same reasons as Microsoft, but added several features "bricked" by the plug-in to the list, including IE8's Accelerators and accessibility tools.

Google's approach to solving the outdated browser problem is the path to madness, Baker concluded.

18 comments

    Anonymous 2 years ago
    I don't care what Mozzie, M$ or Gargle have to say - I tried it, it didn't make my IE8 run an faster. Native Chrome runs heaps faster than IE8 on my windoze box, but Chrome Frame made no difference to IE8's performance. So as far as I'm concerned it does not work - maybe I didn't install or configure it correctly, but I couldn't see any configuration options - and documentation is non existent. I'd consider using Chrome or Safari as my default browser, were it not that I'm addicted to some Firefox extensions for which as yet there's not webkit equivalent
    Anonymous 2 years ago
    All my friends and all office colleagues (open source web development team) have given up using Mozilla 3.5, because of pooooor software quality. Blinking tabs, using as much as 400mb of RAM if you put extra-tab, are few of the fine features of Mozilla 3.5 browser. First Mozilla should learn how to make browsers then comment on others. By the way, IE is one of the safest browsers to use, if somebody could remind Mozilla.
    Anonymous 2 years ago in reply to Anonymous
    "By the way, IE is one of the safest browsers to use, if somebody could remind Mozilla."Yes, because Microsoft products are the pinnacle of security. Don't get me wrong, I'm no MS fanboy, and I fully acknowledge that other platforms (choose your market: OS, browser, etc.) also have security problems, and nobody's perfect, but to say that IE is one of the safest browsers to use is just ridiculous. There are many reports all over the Internet which claim just the opposite. The fact that IE is tied into the OS at a lower level is an even bigger security risk by its very definition. The only possible reason I could see that one might think it's a "safer" browser is because it doesn't alert you of all the Bad Things (TM) - it just lets them happen invisibly. Firefox and Chrome (not sure about Opera - I've never given it a fair chance) both have several forms of alerts regarding malicious activity.A primary tenet of good software security is to validate all data coming across an external boundary and accept only specific known-good activity and reject all else - i.e., if you're accepting a numeric field, don't run a check to see if it has alphabetic characters and pass if it doesn't - what if it has punctuation or non-ASCII characters? - but instead, do a strict check for numbers only and succeed if and only if that single check passes. You can't possibly expect to catch all the corner cases.Microsoft's SDL push a few years ago is a step in the right direction, and some departments clearly understand how to do it right, but until the day comes when that's applied to IE, I'll stick to my Firefox (or Chrome, or Opera, or Ethernet jack wired directly to the brain to interpret binary streams at a neural level).
    Anonymous 2 years ago
    I use Firefox exclusively, and recommend it to everyone. If someone needs to search for something on the web I tell people to "Google It". I stopped using IE when I tried Firefox and found that after a few weeks of using it, it was asking me if I wanted to download programs from sites containing spyware and viruses, IE never did this, it just allowed the programs to be installed. Hence, my PC doesn't have all that crap on it anymore. Google is great for searching the web, been using it since I found out about it years ago. But Chrome, I don't know, it's too new and now they are trying to place their rendering engine inside IE. That's like placing a 350 into a ford
    Anonymous 2 years ago
    And Chrome Frame uses Chrome binaries, hence it is Chrome running under IE. Totally different? Come on.
    Anonymous 2 years ago
    I think what Mozilla is saying is correct. Most people dump IE because they want browsers with advanced features like custom themes, inline spell checkers, and a download manager. Only Mozilla has all three. Most people can give a rats tail about JavaScript performance or the 3 milliseconds faster a web page will render.As good as webkit is, it still breaks allot of websites that work fine on Firefox and IE. Webkit has allot of bugs around file uploads, plug-in handling and other standard web browser functions. I have submitted bug fixes for some I have found out of frustration with creating work arounds. To Microsoft's point, WebKit technology is not as mature and has many security holes that will be exploited as soon as the market share grows beyond a certain point.From a developers perspective, Questions like "what user_agent string will be returned when a user with IE6 and Chrome Frame hit your site?" and "How will this effect JavaScript libraries and other components with detection scripts." will be keeping us up at night.
    Anonymous 2 years ago in reply to Anonymous
    ...yep, well said...
    Anonymous 2 years ago
    I cannot imagine a more effective way for Google to challenge Microsoft than to introduce the Chrome Frame. Even though I'm a .NET developer even I can appreciate the fact that Microsoft really needs to get on the ball with IE.Years of complaining has gotten us nowhere. Perhaps this very public embarrassment will get Microsoft to throw a couple of billion and putting together a solid, fast, and standards compliant browser.Microsoft can either make a decent browser or continue to be humilated in this way. I love the free market system that makes this kind of showdown possible. We'll all end up with better software because of it.
    Anonymous 2 years ago
    you are correct..please know the differences first
    Anonymous 2 years ago
    That's my opinion anyway. Say what you want, you're just jealous Google is being an apt and avid competitor, jabbing at you from all sides, while you blindly swat air. Google's products may stink, or you may think them great, either way Microsoft and Mozilla can walk around with their panties up in a wad. Your opinion of what effect a perfectly legit, third-party, slap-in-your-face add-in has on the world of web development has no weight. imho.
    Anonymous 2 years ago
    Google won't be bothered by these complaints.The real reason for offering Chrome Frame is to trigger Microsoft to finally take web standards and JavaScript performance seriously.I think this is a great move and I was expecting this since the birth of Google Chrome.Thank you Google!
    Anonymous 2 years ago
    IETab allow Surfer control which engine to use.
    Anonymous 2 years ago
    If only they started the dev of Google Wave with an IE/FF combo then they wouldn't have the impossible task of trying to shoe-horn google only code into an existing browser.Let this be a lesson to everyone. Dev in your "cool" browser all you like. However! never forget your users are on IE.
    Anonymous 2 years ago
    lmaoMozilla's only concern is people have another reason not to use firefox, why use firefox when people can use a familiar interface but it is fast as chrome.And there is really no need to be so concerned about too many different browsers in a browser Mozilla could use that to their advantage (think about it). Still funny that Mozilla is going off half cock about this
    mburton325
    mburton325 2 years ago in reply to Anonymous
    Maybe, but I can think of some other reasons this is a poorly thought out idea. First and foremost would be security. This idea could and probably will open up a big security risk. Cross-scripting and more i-frames that we can't detect. As an administrator I am not too thrilled with the path taken by google. As a home user it is just another idea to shove to the side. Finally as a developer I don't think this technology will find its way to any thing I do in the near or far future.
    Anonymous 2 years ago
    What about the firefox plugin called IE-tab which allows to launch the IE engine directly from firefox?Did they moan for this one? No, of course...
    Anonymous 2 years ago
    And is different exactly how? ...what a load of crap you just said, appointing exactly what the article said and what you where trying to refuse... you must be some tight ass chrome fanboy...
    Anonymous 2 years ago
    Its no different then running chrome in IE. Its an IE plugin using Chrome DLLs, much like IE-Tab being a firefox extension using IE DLLs.

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